Clinton County raceway!!!!!

[dirtyharry]

How many years has the track been there? Has it ever changed? Where has all the money been going? Don't cry that you can't do anything about it now because you don't have the money. Use the place as a cash cow for years, then complain because car counts and attendance are down. It's my understanding that Clinton County is in the same situation as Port. It's owned by a fair board and the promoters hands are basically tied. The best promoter in the world can't sell shit wrapped in a pretty pink bow.

["livin the dream"]

Jun 16, 2011 13:42:42 GMT -5 dirtyharry said:

How many years has the track been there? Has it ever changed? Where has all the money been going? Don't cry that you can't do anything about it now because you don't have the money. Use the place as a cash cow for years, then complain because car counts and attendance are down. It's my understanding that Clinton County is in the same situation as Port. It's owned by a fair board and the promoters hands are basically tied. The best promoter in the world can't sell shit wrapped in a pretty pink bow.

Somehow Harry, what you say makes sense.

[brianwegs]

I am not going to site here and argue what kind of money is being made but I know it isnt what everyone thinks because vern pays most of the people there something and that money has to come from something whether it be pit fees or grandstand fees. but they have to get paid somehow or else there wouldnt be anything done to the track throughout the week. Also I know Vern has put some clay on the track 2 years ago I think it was and if I am not mistaken he used his own money for that. But like I said dirtyharry if you think you can run the place better put up the money and run it and use your money to make the track better if you know so much abotu running the track properly.

As far as being a cash cow for all the promoters I heard some of the prices for electric bill for the lighting and what not as well and thos enumbers are crazy never mind the money they have to pay just to be able to use the track, LEASE MONEY, there are so many other things that people over look that think it is all about making money there and never thinking about what it takes to run the place.

[dirtyharry]

Jun 16, 2011 13:57:50 GMT -5 brianwegs said:

I am not going to site here and argue what kind of money is being made but I know it isnt what everyone thinks because vern pays most of the people there something and that money has to come from something whether it be pit fees or grandstand fees. but they have to get paid somehow or else there wouldnt be anything done to the track throughout the week. Also I know Vern has put some clay on the track 2 years ago I think it was and if I am not mistaken he used his own money for that. But like I said dirtyharry if you think you can run the place better put up the money and run it and use your money to make the track better if you know so much abotu running the track properly.

As far as being a cash cow for all the promoters I heard some of the prices for electric bill for the lighting and what not as well and thos enumbers are crazy never mind the money they have to pay just to be able to use the track, LEASE MONEY, there are so many other things that people over look that think it is all about making money there and never thinking about what it takes to run the place.

I am sure they aren't making a lot of money now, not many places are. The point is, they could have done more over the years to avoid the situation they're in. Lease Money? Selinsgrove pays a lease and they have probably the nicest track within a three hour drive (mainly because I don't like WG's fans). If he put down new clay and it wasn't free, he got ripped off. The place hasn't changed and it never will, most places associated with fair boards are dives. The up side is some have realized that, like Port, and they are getting a little better. You can ditch the, "spend your money" argument, unless we have become fifth graders, we are adults discussing a problem. I'm not going to praise someone if I feel more can be done. If you want money, put on some good shows and you'll get it every week.

Clinton County's best bet is to ditch the big guys and stick with the 270's, those guys love racing there. Maybe try and get some more classes along those lines running there. It's going to be hard to compete with other tracks running late models and 358's, mainly because they pay better.

[brianwegs]

Yea Selinsgrove pays a lease as well.. but they also have 2 tracks and the 1 track is mostly a PROFIT TRACK being the go kart track because they dont pay anything out to the kid karts and they have quite a few kid kart classes to help pay for the rest of the friday night events... I am not saying that there shouldnt have been anything done in the past but Vern is doing what he can with what he has and has done a lot more for the track then any of the other promoters has done in the recent years.

If you do not like clinton county as much as you say you do the why do you got there and race or go there and watch? Yes I agree that it is more of a track for the 270s and the smaller cars BUT why is he still getting over 20 sprint cars when they are there and an average of 15 Late Models? I think it is because they like the place and the atmosphere or the way vern is treating them but there has to be something there for the sprint cars that they have over 20 a night when they show up.

[dirtyharry]

Jun 16, 2011 15:52:13 GMT -5 brianwegs said:

Yea Selinsgrove pays a lease as well.. but they also have 2 tracks and the 1 track is mostly a PROFIT TRACK being the go kart track because they dont pay anything out to the kid karts and they have quite a few kid kart classes to help pay for the rest of the friday night events... I am not saying that there shouldnt have been anything done in the past but Vern is doing what he can with what he has and has done a lot more for the track then any of the other promoters has done in the recent years.

If you do not like clinton county as much as you say you do the why do you got there and race or go there and watch? Yes I agree that it is more of a track for the 270s and the smaller cars BUT why is he still getting over 20 sprint cars when they are there and an average of 15 Late Models? I think it is because they like the place and the atmosphere or the way vern is treating them but there has to be something there for the sprint cars that they have over 20 a night when they show up.

I stopped going to Clinton County last year, I couldn't deal with it anymore. However, I may convince myself to make it out for a 270 show, those boys are fun to watch. The car count probably has more to do with teams not wanting to travel as much and just have some fun, so they stay closer to home. I look through their point standings and I only see a few drivers who travel any sort of distance. If they found a way to increase the purse a little bit, add some more seating, and keep the dust bowl down, they could easily get more fans and cars. Having 20 cars is nice but 30+ is better. As far as having more sprints than late models, well you got me on that one, it definitely is a first.

[racermb33]

get rid of the dust and they will come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and drop general admission back to $8

[buzz]

I remember years past it was easier to make money when the drivers actually had a fan base come watch them. Now most teams are lucky to get much more than their pit crews.

[buzz]

Ooops,hit post too soon. My point is,there is just a lot less leisure spending in these times,so when people may have attended many different outings,now they have to pick and choose rather than attend multiple things over a weeks time.It also is no help when it rains in the mornings and threatens rain in the evening.

[buzz]

Dirty Harry,do you have any idea what it costs to put on a race each week? You pay it out even if it rains. Just go down and add up the place money for all divisions, before you figure in costs before the show goes on and maybe you will see where the money goes. I am sure if it's such a profitable venture,maybe you would like to raise some money,make an offer and become rich,or at least show them how it's done.
Seems to me if Vern and crew weren't there,this track would have outed the lights 4 years ago.
But I guess this is the the gratitude they should come to expect from keeping the track open.
If every one showed the respect and enthusiasm you do,I can see the lights dimming real soon.
Myself, I hope Clinton County does all that is necessary to keep this track alive. The easy thing to do when you lose money is pull the plug.

[dirtyharry]

Jun 16, 2011 18:32:32 GMT -5 buzz said:

You pay it out even if it rains..

Really? So if they cancel the races at noon, they are still paying out the winners share? How do I sign up for that? Look at all the tracks that are successful around our area. What do they all have in common? They can fit more than five people in the stands. They actually pay a decent purse to win the race. They aren't dust bowls after the first hot lap session. I am sure you love sticking up for your little buddies at Clinton County, but if they are so0o0o0o0o wonderful, then their track wouldn't be in this situation, now would it? Keep blaming me for pointing out the obvious, what is your suggestion for the lack of funds? Oh that's right, drivers don't have gypsies following them anymore.

[buzz]

No they pay out all other expenses during the week.Last I checked there is equipment that someone pays for,such as graders and tractors,track prep employees, lawn mowing,insurance.There are fixed costs. And there is plenty of seating.
On a night with 15 cars in each division,purses are 8240 for the sprint nite and 7175 on a late model night. You need to pay all this stuff out before you start raking the cash.
Clinton County is not the only struggling track during these times. If things stay the way they are,I think you may see a few tracks come to their dire end. And to tell the truth,There have been becoming fewer and fewer tracks to go to,no one is busting the doors down to open new ones. I think the only ones that will survive are the ones operated by people that love the sport and don't want to see it die. If racetracks were so profitable,every town would have one.

[dirtyharry]

Jun 16, 2011 19:03:40 GMT -5 buzz said:

I think the only ones that will survive are the ones operated by people that love the sport and don't want to see it die.

So are you saying Vern doesn't care? Tracks are going to die out because it is quickly becoming a rich mans game. You have guys, especially in the 410's, that just want to out dollar everyone. They drive the cost up, because while they have something no one else does, they are on top. Then when the situation reverses they are crying about the spending being to high. Maybe instead of guys like Rahmer and Montieth having top notch rigs to race at two tracks once a week, there owners who have much more money than me, should help out some struggling tracks by throwing up some billboards. Oh wait, we can't have that, because we won't look like F1 stars pulling into WG once a week.

Plenty of seating? Greenwood has more seating than Clinton County does.

[buzz]

I couldn't speak for Vern one way or the other on his thoughts. I would assume he cares or he wouldn't be doing it.
Adding more seats does not necessarily bring more people. I don't recall a standing room only crowd recently. If the stands are filled to capacity,I would then think it logical to add more seating.I am saying that throwing more money is not always the solution. I see this all the time that people think someone else should throw more money at a problem to fix it.
As far as the expenses of 410 racing,it is costly,but mention dropping them for 358s or 305 which would likely get a better field of local drivers,perhaps some with a pickup and an open trailer bringing them in, and you would think someone peed in someones cheerios.
I agree it would be great to get sprint racers back to the little guys,but it really could only happen if you pushed 305s and 358s.
I thought the show where the cowboy finished second was a great show. They should all be such a great show.

[dirtyharry]

Jun 16, 2011 19:38:09 GMT -5 buzz said:

I couldn't speak for Vern one way or the other on his thoughts. I would assume he cares or he wouldn't be doing it.
Adding more seats does not necessarily bring more people. I don't recall a standing room only crowd recently. If the stands are filled to capacity,I would then think it logical to add more seating.I am saying that throwing more money is not always the solution. I see this all the time that people think someone else should throw more money at a problem to fix it.
As far as the expenses of 410 racing,it is costly,but mention dropping them for 358s or 305 which would likely get a better field of local drivers,perhaps some with a pickup and an open trailer bringing them in, and you would think someone peed in someones cheerios.
I agree it would be great to get sprint racers back to the little guys,but it really could only happen if you pushed 305s and 358s.
I thought the show where the cowboy finished second was a great show. They should all be such a great show.

410 racing sucks plain and simple, 358s are the way to go.

As far as throwing money around, you don't just throw it around, you spend it where it needs spent. Guard rails for example, so we don't end up in the woods. Put on some special shows to regain interest, that goes back to the promoter. You don't need a $50,000 race to pack the track. Compare the crowd at a weekly Selinsgrove, Lincoln, Port, or WG race, and you'll see there is a difference. Just like everything else there is a reason behind the difference. Yeah Selinsgrove has track sponsors that play a big part and help with special shows, there is also a reason they have them and not Clinton County.