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Post by fmer28fan on Jul 1, 2010 11:22:00 GMT -5
the modified prostock wins again, i guess when you are supposed to start 12 and start 4 it isn't as difficult, i guess it is open competition for the remainder of the season, so all the 358 late model guys should put a ford rear in and come race at ccr, maybe that would open some eyes.
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Post by "livin the dream" on Jul 1, 2010 12:21:07 GMT -5
Do you want a little cheese to go along with that whine there fmr28fan! Give it a rest! That car isn't anymore illegal than most of the Pro Stocks running at Clinton! I don't recall you saying anything the first couple of weeks when he wasn't running well now he has 2 wins and guess what! You have 2 posts!!
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Post by dirttrackrocker on Jul 1, 2010 12:43:17 GMT -5
would be easier to tech dirt rev box(i forget what the msd number is) and 6200 chip 650 carb. internal clutch trans (ber,brinn,falcon) so no cluth or flywheel to check(or cheat with). would make it alot easier on the tech man if he thought someone tampered with the box stick a 3000rpm chip in it and see if it revs past it. anyway easier to tech and i understand your point rules dont mean anything if no one is lookin Who wants to try to talk Vern into it?  I'm betting you'll get some strong opposition from a couple of people. Especially someone that just spent a BOATLOAD of money on a Late Model disguised as a Pro Stock... ;D ;D |
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Post by "livin the dream" on Jul 1, 2010 12:57:21 GMT -5
Holy crap, we have another one! Rocker, what is your chassis constructed of?
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Post by dirttrackrocker on Jul 1, 2010 13:33:59 GMT -5
It's like most of the other cars out there it's an old Late Model with a standard camaro clip.
For the Record, I don't really have a problem with that car other than, last year the rules said NO STRUT cars !! period. So when I decided to build a new car I got an old Bullit Leaf Spring Late Model and put a clip on it. Now, I know damn well if I go out and build a car like that, then next year they're gonna say no strut cars again. If they're gonna let a strut car run, then it should be a 3 link like it was designed. As it stands you have a "stock" car that doesn't exist. A strut car with leaf springs.
3 years ago when Vern took the track over, we had a meeting to iron out the rules. He kept telling us we were getting way to much money in these cars, he wanted us to keep the rules simple so they didn't get out of hand and look where we are.
In my opinion, this may sound weird but, the rules need to be opened up a little bit to keep costs down. If your allowed a 4 bbl, you don't have to spend 1000.00 dollars to make a 2 bbl work like a 4bbl, if your allowed a Bert tranny you don't have guys spending thousands on modified "stock" tranny's and high dollar clutches and such...You follow my analogy??
I'm thinking another meeting is in order to get some things ironed out......
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Post by "livin the dream" on Jul 1, 2010 14:04:13 GMT -5
Rocker, How much of chassis dynamics and geometry do you know and understand? Why do you feel that a strut car with leaf springs has an advantage? Did you know that those cars were originally 3 link and other competitors complained now they are changed to leaf and they are just as good. It's called homework! With the right changes your car could be just as fast or faster. I do follow you with the cost aspect though!
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sk8077
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by sk8077 on Jul 1, 2010 14:25:33 GMT -5
Dirttrackrocker I'm with you on that one. If it is a class that would and could be enforced then heck yea! But that would be the main issue if it got to the discussion/ consideration stage. Otherwise it would get corrupted from its origional intent. But as history has proven at both tracks the rules and leeway grows over time. Sgrove and clinton prostocks/ Thunders/ semi lates etc. A five year cap on initial "agreed upon" rules would be the minimum that anyone should settle for. And a means to tech every week with penalties( random/lottery or top 5/3 etc.)
Another example is 358 sprints. When the class started the intent was going racing for 10k(todays money) in a full size sprint(3-5k motors). That class has come a long way since 89 with ammendments to the rules. Try racing anywhere in that class with that money
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Post by dirttrackrocker on Jul 1, 2010 15:30:21 GMT -5
Rocker, How much of chassis dynamics and geometry do you know and understand? Why do you feel that a strut car with leaf springs has an advantage? Did you know that those cars were originally 3 link and other competitors complained now they are changed to leaf and they are just as good. It's called homework! With the right changes your car could be just as fast or faster. I do follow you with the cost aspect though! O.K. I guess I worded that wrong. I don't think they have an advantage as leaf springs. I guess what I'm saying is if they can run leaf springs, I should be able to run a 3 link. In short what I'm saying is, they started out letting a lot of little things slide, and now there are more and more things being let go.... |
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Post by benson on Jul 1, 2010 16:24:28 GMT -5
your anology isnt quite correct if they can spend 1000 on a 2bbl they will spend that much on a 4bbl you want to race a $200 4bbl against a $1000 4bbl. i didnt do well in geometry and dont know much about chassis dynamics so how is 2 control arms,a shock and a spring better than 1 strut, 1 control arm and 1 spring ??
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Post by dirttrackrocker on Jul 1, 2010 18:33:38 GMT -5
so how is 2 control arms,a shock and a spring better than 1 strut, 1 control arm and 1 spring ?? It's not.. It's all about weight. That front end weighs probably 100-150 pounds less than a standard clip. Thats a LOT of weight when your taking it off the front end.... But, before this gets out of hand... I'm NOT complaining about the 28 car, what I'm complaining, well, I hate to use the word complaining, lets say, what I'm dissapointed in is, how the rules have been stretched little by little to the point that the rules really don't matter anymore... |
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Post by benson on Jul 2, 2010 6:53:12 GMT -5
the last thing i want to do is have someone think i'm bashing the 28 team, if you remember they have been track champions back in the thundercar days, done some sprint car racing, if you gave them a hotdog cart and enough time they would win with that too. its nice to see them get a little back after all the hard work and time they have into racing !!
as far as the car goes its just as "leagal" as the rest of them, and theres alot more to it than wieght its about geometry too,take 100lbs off ur front and it will push alot more than it does now, rocker your car is good dont over look shocks,maybe some reer steer (left rear forward) your car always looks tight to me remember to work on what its doing first you have to get in the corner to get out
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Post by "livin the dream" on Jul 2, 2010 8:27:58 GMT -5
the last thing i want to do is have someone think i'm bashing the 28 team, if you remember they have been track champions back in the thundercar days, done some sprint car racing, if you gave them a hotdog cart and enough time they would win with that too. its nice to see them get a little back after all the hard work and time they have into racing !! as far as the car goes its just as "leagal" as the rest of them, and theres alot more to it than wieght its about geometry too,take 100lbs off ur front and it will push alot more than it does now, rocker your car is good dont over look shocks,maybe some reer steer (left rear forward) your car always looks tight to me remember to work on what its doing first you have to get in the corner to get out You got it there benson! It's a total package. You can't over look any part of the car from brakes, shocks, springs, spring alignment, track width, and the list goes on. Even though it is an entry level division, the days are gone of just throwing together a junker and going racing. Everything has to be carefully planned out! |
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Post by fmer28fan on Jul 2, 2010 12:36:07 GMT -5
benson i do aggree the 28 team has raced in several different divisions with some success, however i disaggree with you saying with the weight off the front end would only make the car push more, a car with 53 or 54 rear percent only pushes from lack of knowledge on set ups, all the rear weight in the world doesn't make a car push. it is how much the left rear weighs, with a car like that you can put the weight in neurtral spots on the car creating a better balence of the car, that is why most late model guys run 55 rear percent. (livin the dream) you have the option not to read what i post on here, you are right i have only had 2 post prior to this one, but i am entitled to my opinion as well as you are, and the last time checked this was for everyone who wanted to chat and make comments or express there thoughts and opinions on local racing.
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Post by dirttrackrocker on Jul 2, 2010 12:48:44 GMT -5
O.K. lets back the train up a little bit here.....
I replied to a couple of posts in this thread about how the rules have gotten out of hand, and you guys have interperated that to mean I'm blaming my pooor performance on the 28 car.. Not sure how you got there.
My cars performance (or lack there of) this year has absolutely nothing to do with how someone elses car is designed or constructed. I have been racing as long as AY, in fact we raced thundercars together. Lets not forget that I won 3 features last year and was in a very close championship battle all the way down to the drop of the last checkered flag, so lets say I know a little about chassis dynamics and what to do to make a race car work. I am well aware of the "Total Package". I also know that to get a car figured out, you can't change everything at once. Little changes add up to big gains.
I started this year with a brand new race car, we put last years set up on it as a starting point. Needless to say it was WAY OFF!! The dynamics of the car are totally different than the old one and the track is drastically different than last year. So, a little change one week, a little more the next, throw in some bad luck here and there and here we are 1/3 of the way through the season and we are now getting pretty close.
Back to the 28 car... Do I think it has an advantage?? Absolutely!!! In my opinion, it is a superior design, Todd Long and Skip Smith should be commended for their efforts. Is it an unfair advantage?? Thats not for me to decide.
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Post by benson on Jul 2, 2010 14:37:29 GMT -5
i dont think your performance is lacking or do i know more than you, probably not. i only took notice to your car because i liked it and if more guys put as much effort into it as you it would be a much better division. sometimes people can see more from the fence than you can from behind the wheel. next time if you want my 2 cents ask i wont give it here anymore, i dont hide behind screen names and i'm pretty sure you know who i am.
as far as rear wieght and pushing your 100% correct, i run 65% plus rear weight and no push and i know the nuetral spot for weight on my car is under my left foot (the position i can add weight and keep my % correct) i just see alot of prostocks with 400lbs strapped to the rear bumper and wonder if thats the best place for it
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I'm betting you'll get some strong opposition from a couple of people. Especially someone that just spent a BOATLOAD of money on a Late Model disguised as a Pro Stock... ;D ;D